Me and women preachers

“There  is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28).

I’m a Southern Baptist pastor. I am a 74 year old male.

And I blog, mostly for pastors and church leaders within the context of churches like ours.

They’re the only kind of churches I know.

(As a child, I attended the Free Will Baptist Church in rural Alabama and the Methodist Church in rural West Virginia, before they became “United Methodists.”  As a 19-year-old college student, the Lord led me to become Southern Baptist. I have lived and worshiped and served within that context ever since.  As a pastor, it’s all I know.)

I don’t write for Catholics, although if they read my stuff and find something useful, I’m delighted. I don’t write for the United Methodists, with their district superintendents and bishops and annual appointments, but am always pleased when they tell me some of these writings have proven helpful.

I don’t write for women pastors, but am pleased when they say these articles have been of assistance in their ministries.

No Catholic writes to criticize because I don’t mention the pope and nuns and their saints. No UMC pastors criticize because I fail to take into consideration how they do things. But women pastors regularly let me know they are offended by my use of the pronoun “he” in referring to pastors.

Most are gracious in pointing out what they consider my slight and/or oversight, which I appreciate. I’m not naturally confrontational and appreciate kindness from one writing to point out my errors. I would rather make love than war, as the 1960s slogan put it.

But, I need to say something here.

Two nights ago, a woman messaged to say “I enjoy reading some of your stuff, but I wish you would remember there are women out here pastoring the Lord’s churches, too.”  And yesterday, one tweeted to add a “#8” to my article on churchleaders.com (“7 things no right-thinking pastor should do from the pulpit”). She said, “One cannot use sexist language (like ‘he’) when describing the pastor.”

“He” is sexist language?

Lordy. What are we coming to?

For the umpteenth time, I replied (to the first message, but not to the tweet) to say something like the following:

–I have no trouble with the existence of women pastors. For my money that’s between you and the church. (I know the scriptures pro and con. See the lead text above. The issue is far more complicated than extremists on either side want to make it.)

–I don’t have any personal experience with women pastors.  Our SBC has no women pastors, although we have plenty of women serving in ministerial staff positions such as music, education, youth, children, etc. In the ministerial associations to which I have belonged, there were women pastors, but none were close friends.

–From time to time, I will make reference in these articles to women pastors. Not long ago, writing on pastors’ wives, an article that was widely distributed, we said up front, “I know some pastors are female. However, I imagine very little in this article will apply to their husbands.” That sort of thing.

–Often, when I acknowledge the existence of women pastors, I hear from men who take exception to that, who are dead certain that Scripture forbids them, and who imply that I’m caving in to the liberals.

It’s a no-win situation.

My wife of 52 years has a word on this subject.

A few minutes ago when I ran this by her, Margaret said, “Tell the women pastors you are 74 years old, you are a Southern Baptist, and you are not going to change!”  I’m smiling and thinking, “You’d better hope I don’t change. I washed the dishes tonight.”

When on-line magazines (www.churchleaders.com, www.crosswalk.com, www.disciple.com and others) reprint our articles, they lift them straight from this website.  Readers without an understanding of this will often take offense. I suppose they think I was writing for “Christendom” in general and intentionally ignored their cultural situation or their gender or their denominational peculiarities.

Some of the comments at the end of those articles can be brutal.  Some will point out (correctly) that I do not take into consideration their circumstance, their denominational practices, their culture. They are quick to accuse writers of contradicting scripture or having one’s head in the sand.  I laugh when the occasional critic says, “It’s obvious Joe has never pastored a church.”  Only 42 years, followed by 5 years of denominational service.

Many who write for these magazine services no longer read the comments for this reason. People grow hostile and angry if you do not phrase your counsel just so. I don’t mind reading the comments and occasionally will even reply.  But you find yourself wishing people understood where you’re coming from and were more gracious.

That’s the purpose of this little note.

And so, I say, if you and I knew each other, you would find that I honor you as a minister of the Gospel, no matter your gender or educational level or the size and location of your church.  We would find much in common but also that we differ in a number of ways.

It would be good if readers would do a little work to make the most of articles you find otherwise helpful.  If you are a UMC minister or a Catholic priest and I’m talking about “pastor search committees,” you simply skip that part. If you are a woman pastor and I talk about “pastors’ wives,” you are intelligent and you know what I mean, so skim over it and go on to the rest of the piece.

Please don’t write to accuse me of being insensitive.

Thanks! I love being on the same team as you. And in spite of what Margaret says, I’m not against changing and growing.  But only as I feel the Lord leading, not because someone complained. Is that fair? It feels so.

16 thoughts on “Me and women preachers

    • Dear Joe, I am a missionary in Zambia, and the Lord has prompted me to write a booklet for the pastors wives here in Africa to encourage and empower them. So I came across your Article “Why the Pastors Wife is the most Vulnerable Person in your church” I was hugely encouraged and would like to ask your permission if I could use that article with your name in my little booklet. This is not to make money, the fee that I will charge needs to cover the photocopying. warm regards Gisela

  1. Joe,
    I can’t believe you wrote that!!!!! Are you insensitive? Are you a liberal!!!!!
    Just kidding. Great article.

    Especially loved:
    “If you are a UMC minister or a Catholic priest and I’m talking about “pastor search committees,” you simply skip that part. If you are a woman pastor and I talk about “pastors’ wives,” you are intelligent and you know what I mean, so skim over it and go on to the rest of the piece.”

    Just think about how MANY areas of life and ministry that simple concept could be applied to and how much easier it would make life!

    Terry

  2. I got one comment. I am a white 69 year old female brought up in an Independent Baptist Church. My grand father was a Methodist preacher.. My dad a Baptist preacher.
    I was brought up as the Bible says, females are to keep quiet, per se. Now I know as everyone else does, if that was a fact in churches this day. We would NOT have any type church service, but preaching. That being said, I do not think there should be females in the pastor position.
    But you do have a good article, I find no fault in it, other than disagree about female preachers. My grandfather and dad would roll over in their graves if they could see what this day has brought in the churches.

  3. Well said, Bro. Joe. I come down firmly on the SBC side of the line for myself, but I struggle to reconcile my personal beliefs with the fact that I have two female friends who are pastors in other denominations. I highly respect and value both of them, and I know the Lord is using them mightily in their circles of ministry. This post has really helped me. From here on, I don’t think I will be so dogmatic on my beliefs in this area, and I will pray more often for those two ladies.

  4. Excellent response Bro. Joe!

    I was raise in the ‘fundamentalist’ BMAA missionary Baptist culture of South Mississippi. Racism, bigotry, chauvinism, heresy-hunting, doctrinal disputes, hyper-Calvinism, and a plethora of ‘segregation’-centered issues were our plight in the mid-1900s. I was born in Laurel, MS in July 1963, just before JFK was assassinated. Turmoil was boiling all around our little Baptist ‘culture’ — yet, miraculously God allowed me to observe those things and come away somewhat unscathed as I began to explore other doctrinal positions and enjoy adult conversations with believers of other denominations when I entered Bible college and launched into personal ministry in the early 80s.

    Your SEC-affiliated perspective is always well balanced. You express your opinions with much grace and wisdom. And, it is a huge inspiration to a Baptist kid like me, that a wide variety of denominational sources consider your writings worthy of print and distribution.

    Keep doing what you do my brother! You are appreciated. 🙂

  5. Oops … several typos!! Apologies to my English Comp. professors!! *raised in … etc, etc. Although I’m sure *SEC-affiliation is OK with you! (( ha )) [ref. SBC = Southern Baptist Convention]

  6. Once upon a time, speakers and writers of the English language accepted the pronoun “he” to mean, literally, “he,” or to mean “he or she.” Political correctness has removed this nice but now old-fashioned feature of our language. Too bad. Otherwise, you could write “he” and folks could interpret it as they liked.

  7. Pastor Joe,

    I have wanted to say this for a long time and now is as good as any.

    I want to thank you for your insightful articles. Rarely do I not find something useful and informative and practical in them. But, I admit, I read them as intended and try to look for the general principles, not to correct every little nuance. As a pastor of over 30 years, I still am learning and I learn a great deal from the wisdom you have developed over your multiple decade long career!

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for your caring heart and pastoral insights. When I read your articles, I feel like I am sitting down and talking with my pastoral mentor! And I consider you one of my mentors as a result.

    Please keep up the great work! We out here in “the field” need more of your style of coaching!

    • Thank you, Jim, and Robby and others. Great (and much appreciated) responses. But stick around. The others will be arriving any day now. 🙂

  8. I’m a licensed female minister in the A/G and a police chaplain. I read your article in Churchleaders.com intitled “7 things no right-thinking pastor should do from the pulpit” and found it very informitive. Like you, I was a bit taken back by the offence taken by the “he” refrence because I find I use this alot myself as a blanket to both genders to avoid redundancy and to simplify. I just assumed everyone did. At least I know I’m not alone in my archaic use of the the masculin gender to blanket humanity. I love your articles, by-the-way. Within your articles I always discover nuggets of wisdom from someone who has walked with God in in ministry for many years and so wonderful delivered with a sence of humor that keeps me coming back for more. Keep it Coming, Pastor Joe McKeever, you’re doing a great work for God. You may never know on this side of eternity just how much of a difference you’ve made… but one day… one beautiful, glorious day!

    • Well said, for my part. I tell people I don’t deal with that issue, because in my 45 years of ministry, no young lady (and there are none that I’m going to call old) has ever walked down an aisle and said, “Pastor, God has called me to preach”. Maybe it’s that I’m in an SBC context, and they would not dare. Every time I teach a course for an SBC institution, I sign an agreement to teach in accordance with and not contrary to the Baptist Faith and Message. I abide by that agreement. Nevertheless, I have in classes women who are pastors in other Baptist groups and denominations. I do not deny their calling. It is not for me to know everything, but it IS for me to be a blessing to all I can. I appreciate your spirit in this. And for the record, I have spent most of my adult life as a language teacher…in most languages, “men” means ladies and gentlemen. I’m glad to claim many women in ministry as my “brothers”. You rightly said, there’s as much Scripture for one side of the argument as for the others. Somebody else can sort it out. I’ll do what God has called ME to do. That’s about all that I can chew…

  9. So sad, backward & disgusting. And you call yourselves “what?” And they will know that we are Christians by our oppressive ( placing undue burdens on people) nature.

  10. Brother Joe,

    I appreciate your efforts to be sensitive to those who are really just trying to serve the Lord. I think you’re walking a terrible tightrope in your efforts to be kind.

    You make the statement that you honor those who are ministers of the gospel regardless of gender (I’m paraphrasing, not an exact quote of your words)– I agree that we need to be respectful of those who are serving the Lord, but honor is a bit strong of a word, in my own opinion.

    If Scripture forbids a practice, we can respect without honoring those who persist in being involved in such. The guidelines for pastors and deacons are very strict and I am certain God’s purposes in establishing them remain valid even in our changing society. If we choose to ignore those Biblical guidelines for pastors and deacons, then the slippery slope of ignoring other guidelines, such as those for marriage and the home also are eroded. I can love and appreciate the efforts a woman pastor is making in ministry, without agreeing that she has been called to pastor.

    Our own SBC has not drawn the line, but Scripture is CLEAR on the subject. Some may not have a problem with women pastors, but the Scripture certainly establishes that a pastor is supposed to be man, the head of his house, a loving husband, among a few other qualifications regarding greed, temper, etc.

    I appreciate your loving heart, Brother Joe. I don’t know you, but I would guess (and admit it is only a guess) that you have the spiritual gift of demonstrating mercy. But even in mercy, we must stand firm for Biblical truth… I think you have an excellent attitude, a tender heart, and a loving spirit.. the post wasn’t about whether or not we should have women pastors, but why you don’t express yourself in a certain way. At the same time that I appreciate the efforts of these well-meaning women, they have missed the will of God as expressed in Scripture. Nobody, man or woman, should ever enter the pastorate without a knowledge of God’s call. A man trying to serve as a Pastor without the calling of God may love God and be striving to serve Him. However, he needs the call in order to truly do God’s will. The same is true of a woman– and since God established the guidelines, He wouldn’t put a woman in that position. She may love the Lord and want to serve, but the Scripture is clear. She can’t serve in that particular position and so will miss the will of God and some of the blessings that come with living within His will. Will God forgive her?

    Let’s not “hate” such women. Let;s see that they are simply striving to serve. God doesn’t call everyone.

  11. Brother Joe!
    I read your articles for spiritual insight, general wisdom, and lessons on communicating to large and varied groups of people. I read the comments for insight into those large and varied groups of people. It is hilarious (I suppose) that the comments often prove your point and in this case, they wound back to it rather quickly. Will the circle be unbroken? I have my doubts, Lord. I have my doubts.

    We sure do appreciate you!
    AA

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